Giving yourself plenty of runway to solve a problem is Thuy Doan’s golden rule for coding. Thuy is a Community Engineer at Mux who is focused on driving underrepresented but necessary change. In this episode, Cassidy, Zach, and Thuy discuss creating your own path, if a hotdog is a sandwich, and why it’s better to release code before guessing how it will be used.
Giving yourself plenty of runway to solve a problem is Thuy Doan’s golden rule for coding. Thuy is a Community Engineer at Mux who is focused on driving underrepresented but necessary change.
In this episode, Cassidy, Zach, and Thuy discuss creating your own path, if a hotdog is a sandwich, and why it’s better to release code before guessing how it will be used.
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Episode Timestamps:
(00:41): Thuy’s role as a Community Engineer at Mux
(04:38): What Thuy’s day-to-day looks like
(11:08): Rapid Fire Questions
(20:41): Random Segment Generator
(25:32): Thuy’s advice for getting started in the tech world
(29:22): Cassidy’s Sage Advice
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“Your path is probably not going to be linear. There are probably going to be developers that you admire but ultimately, the type of developer that you're going to be someday, you don't have to model it off of anybody that you've seen. You can create that path. You can create your own definition.” – Thuy Doan
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Links:
The Dev Morning Show (At Night) YouTube Page
Cassidy William...: Hello everybody and welcome to the Dev Morning show (at night). I'm your host Cassidy Williams, I do developer experience at various places. And I am joined by my lovely co-host, Zach Plata. Hey, Zach.
Zach Plata: Yeah, I'm Zach, and I do dev relations at Rive. And that's it.
Cassidy William...: Rive is launching a bunch of cool stuff recently, it's very exciting. And speaking of the DevRel sphere, we have an amazing guest today, Thuy Doan. She is a community engineer at Mux. Thuy, welcome.
Thuy Doan: Thank you. Thank you all for having me.
Cassidy William...: Could you tell us a little bit more about what your role is and also just the things that you do in and outside of work?
Thuy Doan: Sure. So at work I am what's called a community engineer, I work at Mux. If I had to explain what a community engineer does, it's a mix of somebody who does software development but also makes content. Whether that's writing or making videos, or being on podcasts or shows like this one with you two lovely people. All to help developers do the thing they do every day, which is develop. In Mux's case, it's to develop video applications.
Cassidy William...: Yeah, and I'm a big fan of Mux. I've seen them at various hackathons and conferences throughout the years, pre and post pandemic. And by the way, your video is amazing. And so I can tell you work in video because your setup is lovely.
Thuy Doan: Thank you, thank you.
Zach Plata: Yeah, I'm still admiring the lamp in your background. That's something I need to steal for my own office.
Cassidy William...: That's a great lamp. So what else are you working on right now, Thuy?
Thuy Doan: Oh it is in relation to Mux, but I started getting into open source for the first time-
Cassidy William...: Yes!
Thuy Doan: Which is exciting. On a shallow level I'm excited to be a little head in the repo, one of the contributors. But also-
Cassidy William...: It's very fun-
Thuy Doan: Yeah.
Cassidy William...: To see your little face be like, "I did something! I'm there"-
Thuy Doan: Yes, I'm like one of these seven beautiful people working on this thing that other people use. But it's also a little nerve wracking because this is the first time that I've contributed to open source. So I'm just like, are people going to find it useful? Are they going to hate it? What's going to happen?
Cassidy William...: Right. Yeah. I think it's the best thing to do for your career though really, when you contribute to open source you're not only making software better for other people but you're getting your name out there in a way that shows your technical prowess. And then in general too, it's kind of just good for recruiting, in general, to find people you might want to hire through contributors or to just find people you might want to bring onto a side project that you're building.
Thuy Doan: For sure.
Zach Plata: That is so true. I'm just realizing several times when I've talked to team members on my team and they're talking about like, "Oh, should we look at this person?" The first thing they'll go to is they get their profile and see have they made contributions to work open source or otherwise? And such a great way to just get a high level scope of what kind of stuff they do and what they're interested in.
Thuy Doan: Yeah, I've actually heard of people skipping certain steps inside of the interview process for maybe a software developer position, maybe DevRel, but because certain people are so active on GitHub doing open source or making content they can just be like, "Everything that I have to offer you can see on GitHub."
Cassidy William...: Right. Yeah. And what's great about it too is it's not just writing code, contributing to open source. Sometimes it's writing the docs, writing tests. Sometimes it's just making issues when you find bugs or triaging the existing issues to be just like, "Ah, this is a real bug and I was able to replicate it on my machine."
Thuy Doan: Definitely.
Cassidy William...: Okay-
Thuy Doan: Sure.
Cassidy William...: This is now an awkward transition to an ad.
Zach Plata: The Dev Morning Show (at night) is a sponsored podcast. Mean someone has to pay the bills around here. We're sponsored by LaunchDarkly. And LaunchDarkly is the first scalable feature management platform. That means dev teams can innovate and get better software to customers faster. How? By gradually releasing new software features and shipping code whenever they want, fast tracking their journeys to the cloud and building stronger relationships with business teams. Thanks for the money, LaunchDarkly.
Cassidy William...: At Mux in particular, you mentioned you're a community engineer but what do you work on on a typical day to day?
Thuy Doan: So for community engineers at Mux we have a breakdown that we've been told that we should adhere as closely as possible to. But obviously depending on changing priorities and other team needs, it can look different. But right now the split is like, let me see if I can math, pie chart in my mind. 40, 40, 20. I think that's right. I think 40% making content, 40%... I think I'm totally blanking on my pie chart. I'm so sorry here.
Cassidy William...: What is my job okay?
Thuy Doan: I'm so sorry. Okay, in order to remember I actually, inside of my work calendar I have blocks where it's like these two days should be these things, these two days should be these things. And then this last day should be another thing.
So maybe putting aside the numbers, that's how I break it down. Two days might be writing, two days might be building a demo or something or working on a project that could include open source. And then the last day is creative stuff. So if I want to see what it's like to combine AR with video, I can go off and do that. And if it turns into content, then it might be content. If it doesn't become anything, that's totally fine too.
Cassidy William...: Cool.
Zach Plata: Fun. What is the last fun thing that you did on one of those creative Friday or one day things that you've done?
Thuy Doan: I'm actually failing at that right now. We recently got into this, okay, we're clear what the division of time should be. I've only started getting into it. And I'm finding it super helpful because before I would just take every aspect of my job and be like, I have to do every single thing today. And then the same thing tomorrow. All five of those things, three of those things, again the next day.
But I'm focusing a lot better now that it's like, okay, today is the writing day. Today is the coding day. Because I don't know, I don't context switch very well. I don't know about you all-
Cassidy William...: Same-
Thuy Doan: But-
Cassidy William...: I'm terrible at it.
Thuy Doan: No.
Cassidy William...: I actually tweet, I think we use the same to-do app Centered that allows you to get into flow state and stuff. I actually organize my tasks in there by how easy it would be to context switch to that task. Because otherwise it gets kind of janky if you're just emails and then code. Meanwhile, if I do emails and then GitHub notifications then code or something like that, it works better with my brain.
Thuy Doan: Gotcha. At first I thought you were going to talk about there's some secret hidden labeling or something inside Centered, which I didn't know about. But-
Cassidy William...: No.-
Thuy Doan: No, you just-
Cassidy William...: That would be a good feature request, though.
Thuy Doan: Nice.
Zach Plata: I'm going to need y'all to teach me what that app is.
Cassidy William...: Yes. It's a glorified to-do list, but it yells at you.
Thuy Doan: Oh, Cassidy can yell at you. Her voice is on it.
Cassidy William...: Yeah, I can specifically yell at you in it.
Thuy Doan: Yes.
Cassidy William...: So there you go.
Zach Plata: I'll just have you always on background.
Cassidy William...: Yeah, it actually is. Because it's like me saying, "I'm guessing you're not focusing right now." And-
Thuy Doan: Yeah. You could have a zen Yogi voice being like, "Maybe it's time to get back on track." Or you can have Cassidy do that.
Cassidy William...: Yeah, and then you'd be like, "Shut up Cassidy." Like I do when I occasionally have my own voice yelling at me.
Zach Plata: Very useful. I am going to have to look into that.
Cassidy William...: Yeah. Anyway, Thuy what other tools do you use? Like terminal editor, et cetera?
Thuy Doan: Editor I use Visco Code. Actually. I feel like I'm never consistent with the way that I call my editor. I'm like, is it Visco Code? Is it Visco Code? Or sometimes you look at a word and you're like, "Have I been saying it wrong all the time? Is it spelled correctly?"-
Cassidy William...: You learn it by reading.
Thuy Doan: "What's wrong with my brain?"
Cassidy William...: Yes.
Thuy Doan: I'm pretty sure it's VS Code, but I like Visco Code because it sounds like you're a Visco girl.
Cassidy William...: I think so.
Thuy Doan: [inaudible 00:08:53] Saying Visco Code. I feel like it's one of those, I feel like I'm not consistent with saying GIF or GIF, either. I just oscillate between the two.
Cassidy William...: I feel like that is a more common thing than people realize. I tend to do GIF, but then depending on the context I might say GIF. I've seen that a lot where people just happen to switch around a bunch.
Thuy Doan: Yeah, I feel like every time I go to say that word, I hesitate. And then if I want to be doubly right, I'll just say one version and then the next time I say the word I'll say the other version. So I'm covering my bases.
Cassidy William...: Yeah, you could be. It's like, "I use animated P and Gs, so it doesn't matter."
Zach Plata: So next question, what got you into this industry in DevRel?
Thuy Doan: So at my last company, I was there for five years doing product engineering stuff and some internal tools. And then somehow I found myself writing about the stuff that I was learning. If I was like, "What's up with arrays?" I'd write about arrays on dev dot to, or dev.to. However, that's another one where I'm not sure.
I have no idea how that one's supposed to be pronounced, but I started doing that on the side and then I started craving doing that more and helping people by airing out my thoughts or my thought process or the things that I'm learning about code or about whatever. It doesn't have to be code either. And then just by interacting with developers on Twitter, I found out that there was this whole other area of development called DevRel, like developer advocacy. And I'm just like, "This is a job? And I can get paid doing that?"
Cassidy William...: I feel like that's the story of so many DevRels where it's just like, "Wait, I can do that?"
Thuy Doan: Yeah. "I don't have to do this thing on the side? I don't have to context switch?" I don't have to go do my nine to five software developer job and in the evening, just in the corner in the dark, writing your blog. You know?
Cassidy William...: All right, I'm transitioning us to the rapid fire questions. We're going to go back and forth and ask you some things.
So we all have domain names that we're squatting on. What's a domain name that you're squatting on?
Thuy Doan: Side question is, I'd love to know how many domain names you guys are squatting on. One is active, so I have one, two, three. Let's look. All my domain's on Netlify. One, two, three, four, five. I have six domains. One, technically two are active, but one is the only one that I care about.
So I'm squatting on four, I would say. And one of them's very cringey. No actually two of them are very cringey.
Cassidy William...: I love the cringe. Could we get a hint or a spewing of what the cringe is?
Thuy Doan: So at some point...
Cassidy William...: The pain in your face.
Thuy Doan: It's cringe, because I at once upon a time thought it was good. To the point where I'm like, "Maybe I'll get T-shirts with this saying on it." But-
Cassidy William...: Oh man.
Thuy Doan: The longer that I look at, I'm just like, man, why did I think that was good? As a part of my personal journey, I'm trying to... What's it called? Uncover my ego, I guess. Or try to recognize when, oh, I'm behaving this way because of pride.
And I kind of took that moment of realizing, oh, that's a pride thing. Or oh, that's an ego thing. And I changed it to some cringe slogan like, "It's Ego, Baby." And I was like, we should make this a t-shirt. And I have a domain, itsegobaby.com. I'm just like, I love it so much.
Zach Plata: That is so fun.
Cassidy William...: So good.
Zach Plata: What is the most recent thing you over optimized?
Thuy Doan: So earlier I mentioned that I was doing open source work. Specifically web components, which is my first time working with web components. I am building an open source web component that's like an uploader so that people, they don't have to build their own upload button, they don't have to figure out how to direct uploads work. They don't even have to figure out their own progress bar. It's just built in.
Cassidy William...: Ooh.
Thuy Doan: But I think maybe because it's my first open source contribution, I'm trying to predict how people are going to use the thing.
Cassidy William...: I see.
Thuy Doan: And trying to get ahead. Part of it is, yeah, not predict but try to build something from the standpoint of the user. The end user, which I think is good. But then there's the other... I'm trying to predict a hundred steps in front. I'm just like, what is the 200th person? If there's going to be a 200th person. What niche problem are they going to run into? And trying to optimize for that.
But I think some things you just have to release into the wild and see how are they actually going to use it instead of trying to guess.
Cassidy William...: Yeah, it's such a rabbit hole when you're just like, let's think of every edge case possible. And then you end up just never shipping.
What is your golden rule for coding?
Thuy Doan: I don't know if it's a golden rule I apply to everyone, but something that works for me, like a way of coding is that if I need to solve a coding problem, an engineering problem, I need at least three hours of runway. I don't do well by trying to force myself to work on a problem in this 30 minute window between a meeting. Or even an hour. It doesn't work out very well. Because I need [inaudible 00:15:14] time-
Cassidy William...: Yeah, because you know that you get into that zone of coding and then coming up out of it takes longer than you think. It's a very gradual dip into it. It's not just code and then back doing other things.
Thuy Doan: Yeah. I think of it as, so there's a middle section where you're actually in the zone and then the beginning part is you slipping into the zone and then the end part is you coming out of your trance. And I need enough time for all of that to happen.
Cassidy William...: Agree, agree.
Zach Plata: All right. What's your favorite, "It depends," question?
Thuy Doan: I think a recent one that came up in my work Slack channel was, "Is a hot dog-
Cassidy William...: Oh, what's this one?
Thuy Doan: A sandwich?" Okay? And we can discuss, but I guess I think my real answer is a hot dog is a hot dog. It's like its own thing. But I recently found out that something called the Cube Rule exists.
Cassidy William...: Yeah.
Thuy Doan: And it has its own website and pictures.
Cassidy William...: Because I think according to the Cube Rule, a hot dog is a taco, right?
Thuy Doan: Yeah! And I-
Cassidy William...: [inaudible 00:16:29] Yes, because this...
Thuy Doan: Zach, do you know about the Cube Rule? You both seem like you know about the Cube Rule.
Cassidy William...: I do.
Zach Plata: I think I've heard of it, but it's been a while. But I'm still flabbergasted, probably every time that this thing isn't a taco.
Thuy Doan: Yes. So I guess the Cube Rule asserts that whether something is a sandwich or a taco or a cake is dependent on what the starch structure is like. So a toast is one flat piece of starch with stuff on it. So I guess that would mean bruschetta is a toast. And so it gets to the section about taco, and a taco is like this with stuff in it. And because a hot dog is technically that form, they assert that a hot dog is a taco. But I just cannot agree... I cannot say that they're synonymous.
Cassidy William...: Yeah. Oh...
Zach Plata: I feel like the day that I see a hot dog under the taco section of a menu, I will just walk out. Out of my own personal conscious. Be like, "No, it's not."
Thuy Doan: "This is nonsense!"
Zach Plata: "You're wrong."
Cassidy William...: What's the oldest piece of tech that you still own?
Thuy Doan: The Pink iPod Nano, I think it is. It's like the thinner one.
Cassidy William...: A classic.
Thuy Doan: Yes. With the wheel. I think it still had a wheel then. I don't know if I could find it, but I feel like in... My mom kept all of my grade school stuff, so I'm sure there are really terrible drawings that are somewhere from grade three. And I think a floppy disk is somewhere in there.
Zach Plata: It's a good one.
Thuy Doan: Because we were alive during the era of the floppy disk.
Cassidy William...: We were. Good times.
Zach Plata: All right. Have you written a piece of cringey code? And if you have, very briefly what would that have been?
Thuy Doan: I'm sure that I've written cringey code. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. If I had to sit, maybe a cringey commit? But I feel like it's just... I have this obsession with writing, you know how there's foobar as sample?
Cassidy William...: Right.
Thuy Doan: Text with code. My thing is I like to put poop everywhere. So-
Cassidy William...: Same. So good.
Thuy Doan: Yeah.
Cassidy William...: Great [inaudible 00:19:00].
Thuy Doan: Console log. Commit. Poop. You know?
Zach Plata: So we're all the same, huh?
Cassidy William...: Good. I'm glad we're on the same page here.
Zach Plata: Nice.
Cassidy William...: What's your favorite programming pun?
Thuy Doan: I feel like I just got to default to you for this. I am not a punny person. I am not a witty person. I think this is why I suck at games like Cards Against Humanity. I never realized how literal I was until I tried to play Cards Against Humanity. So, what's the movie? Drax? It's a Marvel. What is it? Guardians Against the Galaxy.
Cassidy William...: Guardians of the Galaxy? Yeah, yeah.
Zach Plata: Oh.
Thuy Doan: Yes. There's a character there who's, he doesn't get jokes. He's just like, "Everything is literal. I speak literally and I will take you literally." I'm kind of like that. So...
Cassidy William...: Got it.
Thuy Doan: When people play Cards Against Humanity, I try to make a sentence that makes sense rather than one that's funny. And I don't know, my brain is slow. I don't know. My-
Cassidy William...: Not slow-
Thuy Doan: Like Cassidy funny.
Cassidy William...: It works in a different way, and I think that's fine.
Thuy Doan: True. Yeah, true.
Cassidy William...: I can't blame you. Get it. Get blame?
Zach Plata: Oh, nice. All right. What's your most used emoji?
Thuy Doan: It's probably one of the new ones. So on the iPhone there is one... We already had a happy cry, aww cry type of emoji. But there's a new one. There's a new one where the tears kind of linger in its eyes and it's just like...
Cassidy William...: The smiling tear? I love that one.
Zach Plata: Oh yes.
Thuy Doan: Yes. I love it.
Zach Plata: That's a good one.
Thuy Doan: Most used.
Cassidy William...: Now it is time for the random segment generator. We have a bunch of different segments and we are going to randomly pick them and we were going to ask you questions. So the first one is Dev opposites. What do you do outside of your day job? What are your hobbies outside of being a developer? Being a community engineer?
Thuy Doan: Outside of a developer, of being a developer, I mean. Okay. I still think of myself as a baker, even though I haven't baked in a while. I like to think of it as being on hiatus. We are waiting for that stroke of inspiration. But at one time I was baking cakes, cupcakes, cake, donuts.
Cassidy William...: Wow.
Thuy Doan: Tiered cakes. I got into buttercream painting, and that was really fun.
Cassidy William...: Buttercream painting?
Thuy Doan: Buttercream painting.
Zach Plata: What does it mean?
Cassidy William...: I haven't heard that term together before. Maybe I've seen it, but is it what it sounds like?
Thuy Doan: Yeah. So have you ever seen acrylic paint? It's like if you see it in a painting, you could see the texture. If there was a glob of paint on there, you could see that it's a glob of paint. It's a similar idea, except instead of painting on a canvas you're painting on a cake. And instead of painting with acrylic paint, you're painting with buttercream.
Cassidy William...: Oh my gosh. And then you get to eat it.
Thuy Doan: And then you get to eat it.
Cassidy William...: Wow.
Zach Plata: Wow. Consuming art.
Thuy Doan: Yes, edible art. But the thing is, I like to make it but I don't like to eat it. Because I don't really like sweets, so it's kind of a conundrum.
Cassidy William...: Fascinating.
Zach Plata: Wow.
Cassidy William...: So do you just bake for everybody around you?
Thuy Doan: Honestly, I bake so that I can prove to myself I can make the thing.
Cassidy William...: That's fair.
Zach Plata: I respect that.
Thuy Doan: And then people reap the benefits because everybody likes sweets more than I do.
Cassidy William...: That sounds great and I wish you lived closer to me.
Zach Plata: Yeah.
Thuy Doan: [inaudible 00:22:47].
Zach Plata: Where is that again? I need to travel to?
Thuy Doan: Canada.
Zach Plata: Just to hop on the border.
Cassidy William...: Dangit.
Thuy Doan: Just a hop and a skip across the border. Yes.
Zach Plata: Yeah.
Cassidy William...: It should be fine.
Zach Plata: Moving on to our next segment, what do we got here. All right, what are you proud of? So tell me something that you shipped or created recently that you're super proud of.
Thuy Doan: A couple months ago I did a talk at an event for Codebar, which is a nonprofit organization trying to help people with development in Europe. And it was a three day festival. On the third day it was wellbeing stuff.
And outside of code, I really am passionate about mental health stuff. And last year I went through burnout and I really wanted to talk about it. But I remember feeling like vulnerable, talking about that in front of people. And I almost didn't do it. But recently I remembered that I did do it because the video released and I was like, "Oh, I'm really proud that I ended up doing it," telling my story and also challenging my own, I guess, internalized E feeling of sharing your quote unquote weakness. Not really, it's just a human thing.
So that's what I'm proud of. I'm proud of sharing.
Cassidy William...: That's awesome. I think being vulnerable is one of the best things to be proud of, because it's so challenging but it's so rewarding. Not only for yourself, but for so many people who get to hear what you have to say.
Thuy Doan: A hundred percent.
Zach Plata: Yeah. I found that it's a lot more authentic, especially at work, when you're a lot more vulnerable with your teammates or your manager. And then they can empathize a little more and then it just becomes such a more natural and fun environment to just be around and talk to people.
Thuy Doan: Yeah. It's really all that human stuff that I like the best. Even when I'm bonding with coworkers, I would rather us discuss whether a hot dog is a sandwich than... I don't know. Yeah, we work on code and stuff and we got to talk about it at some point. But I like all that stuff. I'd rather talk about TV shows and...
Cassidy William...: Yeah.
Thuy Doan: The stuff that you're going through and all that stuff.
Cassidy William...: It creates a psychological safety too, so that when you are in the weeds of coding and stuff, then you can discuss it without having to delicately figure out where this person is at in that given place and time. Where you can give them feedback in the way that they prefer, but then also you both know where the other person is coming from in various ways.
Thuy Doan: A hundred percent.
Cassidy William...: Okay, next one is Launch Lightly, Crash Darkly. What is your best advice for someone getting started in the software development worlds? The tech world?
Thuy Doan: Your path is probably not going to be linear. There are probably going to be developers that you admire, but ultimately the type of developer that you're going to be someday, you don't have to model it off of anybody that you've seen. You can create that path, you can create your own definition. I don't know, someday you might become your definition of a great developer. Whereas you were in the beginning trying to emulate somebody else. Be your own thing.
Cassidy William...: Yeah.
Zach Plata: I love that.
Cassidy William...: I think along with that, it's good to just kind of log where you're at generally, somehow, so that when you do get to a certain place, you can kind of look back and be like, "Wow, I actually did make it." And you can kind of compare yourself to your own growth rather than to someone else's.
Thuy Doan: Yeah. I've heard people say there's this concept of a brag sheet. Sometimes people will keep, I guess notes or a doc, of their accomplishments so that they could tell somebody else. Or I guess you could hype yourself up.
For me, I don't do that but I think I measure my developer growth by kind of noticing when I've developed intuition that I didn't use to have. So for example, at the beginning of my career I would just do things that were bad, not good. For example, you know how we talk about, "Keep it simple," or try to write code that's clear for other people.
Cassidy William...: Right.
Thuy Doan: You might make those mistakes in the beginning and not be aware that that's a problem, but I've gotten to a place in my career where I... Maybe I can't name all the code smells, but I'm like, "I'm pretty sure this is bad." So yeah, I'm there.
Cassidy William...: It reminds me of a time where there is one time where I was struggling with this bug and I couldn't figure it out, and so I naturally googled it and found a Stack Overflow. But the problem was the Stack Overflow answer I read that solved my problem was something that I wrote in the past.
Thuy Doan: Yes!
Cassidy William...: And so it was like a combination of growth and regression all in one tidy package.
Well anyway, thank you so much, Thuy, for being on the show today. It was so fun to have you. I loved hearing all of your opinions about hot dogs and just the things that you're doing in the world.
Thuy Doan: My favorite food.
Cassidy William...: Where can people find you on the internet? Do you have any plugs for us? Things that we should be looking at?
Thuy Doan: Yes, so I'm mostly on Twitter @clearlyTHUYDOAN, C-L-E-A-R-L-Y-T-H-U-Y-D-O-A-N.
I'm also at, I have a personal podcast called Candid and Cringe. That's a podcast about growth in the roller coaster of life. On the podcast that I have, basically we just lean into all the things that we might not usually talk about that are awkward or real. For example, how do you deal with the situation where you're living with a roommate but they're not meeting your expectations? They're not doing the chores, but you are. What you going to do about it? That sort of stuff.
And then aside from that, I guess I'll plug my company. I work at Mux, they're super awesome. They make video APIs for developers. Super exciting. We just had a conference that Cassidy went to. Cassidoo made an appearance.
Cassidy William...: It was a good conference. You did great job.
Thuy Doan: You can find the talks at tmi.mux.com. We released a lot of new, well we announced a couple of new things including an API for real time video. So check her out. Check her out.
Cassidy William...: Cool.
Zach Plata: Thanks.
Cassidy William...: Well and that being said, I'd like to close us out with some advice.
And that advice is it's ego, baby. So sometimes when you are getting down on yourself and you might be just like, "Ah, I should be doing this better, I should be doing this better." Sometimes that is just a bit of pride getting in your way and you need to kind of put that aside, be vulnerable with yourself, and just kind of accept that sometimes you might not be writing the best code, you just need to ship it. Get your work done, try not to over optimize it too much. And then you can always fix it later. It's not a reflection on who you are.
And once again, because making podcasts is expensive, this show is brought to you by LaunchDarkly. LaunchDarkly toggles peaks of 20 trillion feature flags each day and that number continues to grow. And you should use them. You can head over to launchdarkly.com and learn about how.
Thank you for making this show possible, LaunchDarkly. I've been Cassidy Williams. You can find me at Cassidoo, C-A-S-S-I-D-O-O, on most things. I do developer experience at Remote and OSS Capital. And I look forward to finding you on the internet.
Zach Plata: And I am Zach, and you can find me on Twitter at @zachplata, P-L-A-T-A. Again, I'm a DevRel at Rive and happy to share more about animations and accessibility and things on the web.
Cassidy William...: Bye.